Dracu wrote an agnostic believes there is a higher power, but it can’t be proven.

Also, someone had “convinced” me to stop being ignorant and actually study. If I offered you these odds on two horses you’d pick evolution everytime. And yes I understand that ‘gods’ are created beings. He/she isn’t an atheist… an agnostic believes there is a higher power, but it can’t be proven.

You were doing alright until you got to the ‘u’ in assume…. :wink: So that fundamental belief is still there. What do you call someone who is not sure whether there is a higher power or not, because he believes it is unknowable? It’s like the “who created god?” question.

Maybe you have a choice, “Would you like an intelligence gene or a mumbo jumbo gene” – Cos they sure as hell don’t ever seem to exist in the same person. :-D All the way through history, every tribe and nation has at some point worshiped a god, this makes it clear to me that man needs such a thing some inner part of him refuses to believe death is permanent final and not a transition to a ‘better life’, I know others use this argument to say “If we all feel this need then there must be a god” that’s a matter of opinion – it’s not kids that invent gods, it’s adults, adults who realise that one day they won’t wake up anymore. No. See, the “god” gene is much like the “gay” gene or “bi” gene or “Einstein” gene (they have genes for everything).

We are so convinced in our own minds that god does not exist we are prepared to accept the risk of his full wrath.Who among muslims is brave enough to risk the full wrath of God by defying him?. Some agnostics maintain that we can never know. Originally Posted by Megabrain You were doing alright until you got to the ‘u’ in assume…. :wink: If it’s suggested that I spelled it improperly, you lose.If it’s suggested that I inherited the gene, lets reverse this…”You”"u”"u in assume”That’s three against “u”. childish arguments can be so entertaining… And if I didn’t blindly follow my religion, what if it was christianity or Judium – there needs to be some challenge against the religion you follow. Does music have a physical form?Does an idea have a physical form?Does love have a physical form?Yet I am willing to bet even you can comprehend these in some way, so I’m afraid you’re the one who has failed.

That’s fair enough, but why don’t you be more honest and admit you don’t care whether God exists or not, and are interpreting science in such a way as to back it up.I say this, because there is so much you are not even prepared to basically learn about God.

Sound waves.Neurons.Chemical reactions.FATALITY!! Taking all those idea’s serious and thinking them all through one by one would cost too much time. This way I know how you think, and you only assume you know how I do(or any other Muslim does).

On the God side there is only anecdotal evidence, nothing physical ie no absolute proof god created anything. Assuming you were able to bet.So I see God as being statistically unlikely, scientifically unlikely, no personal experience of it so unlikely, physically unlikely. I used to be indecisive about God now I’m not so sure. It has a nice elegance and is wholly consistent with current theories of cosmology and evolution.

XP In a way, everyone is a hypocrit. trying to prove whether or not god exists, and convincing others of your view is exactly what you(some of you) hate jagoman for doing. Translation: Keep on debating it. Does music have a physical form?Does an idea have a physical form?Does love have a physical form?Yet I am willing to bet even you can comprehend these in some way, so I’m afraid you’re the one who has failed. Same thing goes for believers though.

Also, someone had “convinced” me to stop being ignorant and actually study. He’s subconsciously afraid it will cause him to lose his current belief and come to terms with a harsher reality. So that fundamental belief is still there. You appear to be talking about ‘gods’ as opposed to ‘God’, there is a difference. That led to a three+ year study which still continues, but in the meantime I’m atheist now.

At least, I leave it exist as one of the “occult possibilities” I’ve ended up comming to in research. See, the “god” gene is much like the “gay” gene or “bi” gene or “Einstein” gene (they have genes for everything). I could as you say, blindly follow my religion, but Im not stupid, that would simply make me lucky to have been born in an Islamic family.

As a devout agnostic I can assure you I do not believe in a higher power, nor do I disbelieve in a higher power. And yes I understand that ‘gods’ are created beings. What signs would you expect God to give the whole of humanity, regardless of their spiritual position, that He interacts with humanity? You’re talking bullocks.

To be totally honest DaBOB (and this goes to all of you), I expected a challenge when I first came on this forum, a challenge against my faith, but all thats happened is that it has given me a strengthened belief in Allah, and a faster typing speed. You say “you are not even prepared” like you’ve proven god does exist. I used to be a catholic, now i’m not, but the idea that NO higher power exists is just beyond me… I would say, “no one, God just always was.” Atheists would think that to be impossible, and in many cases can’t even imagine how it could be possible. Related Discussions:This salt contains iodine, a necessary nutrientYielding frest water from ocean salt water.Dumb Question about magnificationsalt for coldshow to scientifically lose weight/fat?procaine saltMolten Salt in a 3′ by 8′ tankAre Snakes affected by Salt?A salt pan’s reflectiveness[HELP] Problems about crystallization salt XP I guess you missed the part where I said it didn’t have to be a gene. oh lord(pardon the pun) so literal…. my point was that some part of the human mind makes belief possible or impossible.As for you convincing a theist to be agnostic… you just helped me prove my point.

The reason is that people make unsupported claims all the time. You’ll just have a few more enemies than you had before. You call upon us to take the idea that there is a god seriously, but why is that claim worth our attention? Is it your opinion that all unlogical and unsupported claims (alien abductions etc) are worth thinking about, or only the god claim? I do not know.

You have never yet shown the courage or ability to adopt an atheist mindset.There are two paths in life.One can accept God as the answer to all and live happily in the belief that all will be well forever in a cosy place somewhere.Or can disbelieve and, if wrong, pay the full penalty of the wrath of God. Originally Posted by Ophiolite I lean to the possibility that God is the ultimate emergent property of the Universe who, by a recursive act, loops back in time and creates the Universe. There is ONLY one evolution theory. In the end nobody’s opinions will have changed, so it’s pointless.

Is it elegant to assume a unique and unknown “conscious being”, which only postpones the question of what came first? I say leave unknown what is unknown, instead of filling it in with our imagination. Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht So I ass Get it now? :wink: It’s like their brains are unable of processing the possibility.

It has a nice elegance and is wholly consistent with current theories of cosmology and evolution. Originally Posted by Draculogenes an agnostic believes there is a higher power, but it can’t be proven. Well I would be expecting the person who was ‘faking it’ to be studying his religion, and if that was Islam, then I would hope they would understand its workings the way I do and challenge it against other beliefs, as I do.

That led to a three+ year study which still continues, but in the meantime I’m atheist now. But as they aren’t logical in the first time they can safely be rejected. I am resolute in my uncertainty. You fail.

Originally Posted by jan ardena You appear to be talking about ‘gods’ as opposed to ‘God’, there is a difference. Originally Posted by DaBOB Jagoman doesn’t wish anybody to downplay his religion. Jeremyhfht, I do as well. It’ll make him snap.

Dracu wrote an agnostic believes there is a higher power, but it can’t be proven. You missed the most important one out;4) That very few people are actually qualified, in this day and age, to understand what and who He is, and as such cannot comprehend Him. If there is a 50:50 chance of God or evolution then evolution has a 50% chance of being the answer whereas the chance of your religion being ‘right’ is actually 300 to 1 against.

Brave to sit at a pc and espouse your views to those may disagree? I think not, we all do it on a forum.As you say there is more than one religion there have been many thousands of them, let’s say there have been 150 mainstrean religions throughout the last 2500 years, that’s puts the chances of your religion being the true one at 150 to one against. Let me shamelessly quote myself, as I’m curious about your answer: Originally Posted by Pendragon You may say that I’m not sure there is no god, but this shows that I think in a different way: to me a statement that is not logical and is not supported by any evidence is not relevent, even if I can’t definitively proof that it’s false. I believe your challenge of dismissing God is much harder than my challenge of proving to you he exists.Good luck

Completely moronic, and most hold almost no credibility with anybody who studied it. of course then you have people that prefer to blame it on a gene like it’s a disease…but that’s why it exists to begin with.And actually I’ve “convinced” a theist to be more of an agnostic. I maintain that I do not only not know, but I do not know if we can never know.

How do you know God does not interact with humanity?Maybe God is not what you think Him to be, with all due respect, you don’t sound like you have grasped the basic understanding of who or what God is. In fact you are very open in your contempt of just the idea of person, or thing, such as God. I will be forever (during my life) challenging it, not because I wanna prove myself wrong, but because I want to stay in the set mind of an athiest. If we should treat all these claims as relevent, then that would consume all our time :wink: People claim that gods exist, that where do i buy essay
aliens abduct humans, that some secret organisation controls all governments, etc the list is endless. Nobody can. Who are you to assume he does? I don’t assume that He does anymore than you assume that He doesn’t, my position is that I believe He exists. I lean to the possibility that God is the ultimate emergent property of the Universe who, by a recursive act, loops back in time and creates the Universe.

Originally Posted by DaBOB Somehow I think that, if you were to be judged by God and God new that you were being religious just to cover your bases, you would likely be judged the same as someone who did not believe (seeing as how you are likely faking it). So I assume you got the “mumbo jumbo” gene? So that fundamental belief is still there. .. And that goes for you too, you should continue challenging whether God does actually exist, else you’d be blindly following science – I can see many people doing just that. Yeah, see, I’m suggesting there isn’t a “God”.

Why care if i believe in a higher power or not? Am I not enlightened if I don’t? am I foolish if I do? well why should you care? it’s my life, not yours. I am not responsible for how you percieve statements, but I can see that there is nothing in what I said that give such an impression.Jan. I think its pretty brave of me (as a muslim), as well as showing courtesy by even being on here.

Just them. This guy is from Japan and he is at my school’s library right now making…something…with a bunch of salt.http://www.motoi.biz/english/e_top/e_top.html Completely moronic, and most hold almost no credibility with anybody who studied it. of course then you have people that prefer to blame it on a gene like it’s a disease…but that’s why it exists to begin with.And actually I’ve “convinced” a theist to be more of an agnostic. One cannot comprehend that which doesn’t have physical form if one only has a physical form.

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